[ This is another golden thread that is both entertaining as well as informative. goldenhawk challenges the atheists at every turn.]
Why Islam is the fast growing religion
goldenhawk786, Posted: 07 January 2010 03:59 PM
Islam is the only way forward. This atheist way of thinking is not going to get us anywhere. Rather in the contrary, it has been detrimental to the world. If islam is such a bad religion, then why is it the fastest growing religion? Why is it that Islam is growing fast among western nations? If it is a “barbaric” religion then why are the western society from the commoner up to the professors converting? If the average lay person becomes Muslim, then it can be said to be attracting simple minded people. But when the “western thinkers” accept Islam then that shows that it can’t be absurd, but reasonable.
Gila Guerilla:
There are quite a few non-sequiturs in the OP, and some unsupported conclusions and assertions.
Islam is the only way forward.
To where or what? Why the only way?
This atheist way of thinking is not going to get us anywhere.
How do you know? Who are we? What is the atheist way of thinking?
Rather in the contrary, it [atheism] has been detrimental to the world.
In some ways yes, but so has capitalism, communism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam - you name it. With regard to Islam, it inspires some misguided adherents to kill others as these adherents see fit. Of course not all Muslims are barbaric. Will the less fundamentalist Muslims speak out against their more aggressive counterparts – in a bold and open way, so that murder in the name of their god will be seen as bad by all of the world? Will they speak out in one voice to oppose the ill treatment of women by some of their fellow Muslims? Or will they say quietly that they don’t condone things like that, but keep silent when it comes to actually making changes?
If Islam is such a bad religion, then why is it the fastest growing religion?
Who knows? I don’t - do you?
If it is a “barbaric” religion then why are the western society from the commoner up to the professors converting?
Who knows? I don’t - do you, (or are you just guessing)? It is not all barbaric to be sure, but its holy book contains texts which some interpret as permitting barbarism in the name of their god.
But when the “western thinkers” accept Islam then that shows that it can’t be absurd, but reasonable.It doesn’t follow that this makes it reasonable. Obviously some people are prepared to adopt it, but I don’t know why - do you?
This OP seems to claim that a lot of things are obvious. None of them are obvious, and to make such claims does seem simple minded.
Replying to Gila Guerilla:
1. When I said Islam is the only way forward, is because all other relgigions have tried to “sort” this world out and all have failed. It is the only way forward to global peace and prosperity.
2. Atheism has failed. Atheist rulers such as Stalin have failed. The world is not giving Islam a chance becuase it knows of its strict justice system hold everyone to account. So it will hold all world leaders to account for their eveil crimes, especially the USA who is responsible for the current climate. Islam does not consider any difference from the normal street person right up to the king. The muslim rulers have been placed by “western governments” for their own reasons to supress the muslim populations, thats why their is so much anti-west resentment in Muslim countries.But let’s not worry, it will be just a matter of time when true justice is established on this planet and only ISLAM can do this. That’s why the rest of the world is so worried. It wants to hide the crimes and thinks it can get away with it. That’s why Islam is the only way forward.
3. Muslims have ALWAYS spoke out against opression and tyranny and injustice regardless of where it is coming from. The reason why you are not aware of this is because of the baised media.
4. The reason why it’s the most fastest growning religion is because it’s the only solotuon to mankind’s problems.
5. Misinterpreting is the fault of the reader, not the author.
6. The reason why “western thinkers” are accpeting Islam is due to answer 2 and 4.
5. Read my opening statement again.
Hope that answers your questions.
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@ Tilberian
Your comment:I’d be interested to hear an example of a “western thinker” who has embraced Islam.
My answer: Research and if your really stuck then let me know, I will help you.
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Leaps:
Statements that start off by proclaiming that “X is the only way to do Y” pretty much turn me off to the rest of whatever is being said, unless the statement is preceded by “my opinion is…” or other qualifying phrase.
But if it can be proven that X is the ONLY way to Y? would that be sufficient?
GAD:
Why is Islam growing the fastest, 3 reasons:
1) people want to kill other people to get what they think they are owed in this world but don’t want to be called evil for it, Islam gives them that (Christianity doesn’t kill enough to be competitive anymore).
2) Backwards nations and people that believe in Islam are breeding faster then rats.
3) Islam is violent and spreading (see points 1 and 2 above) and many people are scared and go along to get along least they loose their heads
1. Provide me proof of this
2. Is the USA a backward nation ?
3. I think you have been watching to much of FOX NEWS !
W. Collins:
And let’s not forget how totally awesome it is to live in Muslim countries.
Believe it or not, you have more freedom in certain muslim countries than you do among certain western nations. If you want evidence then I will gladly provide it
The amount (or type) of adherents does not change whether or not Islam is a “bad” religion, however you define that, I would judge Islam by it’s affects it’s followers, societies, and the world, and it seems mainly negative to me
1. Check independant sources.
2. Islam has given solutions for the problems of mankind. Whether you are bothered to check them up with an open mind is up to you. By the way, true science is comaptible with Islam.
3. The Atomic Bomb. That’s what “dark side” of science can do for mankind.
4. The reason is seems negative to you is because you are reading anti-islam propoganda.
Hope that answers the questions
arbiter:
I’m with Oriana Fallaci when it comes to my opinion of Islam.
Why is Islam growing in strength Oriana? “They breed like rats!”
People have negative views about Islam due to the very bad media that extremly biased which is run by the Jews.
[ goodgraydrab says high birth rate among muslims are casuse of Islam's growth]
@goodgraydrab…have you taken then conversion factor into it? i mean among western nations. western people are converting to islam. its not just all about birth rates!
Leaps:
You said: But if it can be proven that X is the ONLY way to Y? would that be sufficient?
I now can not possibly take you, or anything you say, seriously. Ever.
Regards,
L.
well why dont you aks me to elaborate further instead of simply dissmissing my claim ?
Tilberian:
Don’t bother trying to patronize me. I’ll take your failure to provide an example as a withdrawal of the claim [about a “western thinker” who has embraced Islam]
Western Judges who converted to islam. Here is one example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Niud2MHDXrc&feature=related
Maths Professor who converted to islam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5P6iwgbey4&feature=related
The list goes on and on. I have provded you 2 proofs. This should be sufficient for the reasonable minded person. I see your failure to be aware of the wider picture proves my assumtion that your only watching programs like FOX NEWS. No Offence ! However since I did promise to help you do the the homework for you, below I have provided you evidence to your answer which you could have known have you bothered to do some research. The 2 videos you are about to see are western thinkers converting to islam. Dont expect FOX NEW and CNN do give you this information ! LOL
Remember mathmaticias and judeges are not your average joe on the street. Now go and do your homework like them ! LOL
eudemonia:
I think this discussion is probably coming to a close. Next thing you know we will be going through that numerology thing in the Koran again.
I think we all know what we are dealing with here now. Didn’t we just go through this science thing with Danny O and the Mormon thing? How many faiths can TRUE science be compatible with?
I would like to know what science that was that Mohammed used to get to heaven while riding that white horse. Hell, we need propulsion systems like that to get to Mars perhaps.
I am not talking on other faiths. I am talking abot Islam. YOU need to prove Islam is wrong. The burden of proof lies with you. Prove me your case and if you have any questions about Islam, then i will be happy to assistt. please ask a couple of questions at a time. i can answer if you give me 1000’s of questions. As for the riding a white horse, i think we need to tackle this topic systematically. No point in discussing the holy prophet Muhammad (S) if you dont even beleive in god is there? you should stick to the god disscusion and take it from there.
GAD:
1. Provide me proof of this
2. Is the USA a backward nation ?
3. I think you have been watching to much of FOX NEWS !
1. See human nature
2. See G.W Bush
3. See any credible news
stop beating around the bush and give me evidence on questions 1 and 2 otherwise I will assume your just playing games. As for the the “credible news” you are refereing to, can you just provide me one example please?
Leaps:
Hawk said: YOU need to prove Islam is wrong. The burden of proof lies with you.
*yawn* That tired old argument again? Come on.
Well isn’t that what justice is all about. Innocent until proven guilty? Or does that not apply to religious people ?
YOU need to prove the Invisible Pink Unicorn is not in my backyard right now. (It is.) YOU need to prove there is no teapot orbiting the heavens. (There is.) YOU need to prove that I have not been caressed by the noodly appendage of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. (I certainly have been.)
Tired. Old. Argument.
Goodbye.
Well I am not trying to impose my views on you. its usually the athiests with their arrogant attitude towards religion, try to prove to us that there is not god. you need to watch some of richard dawkin videos and you will see my point.
Tilberian: [says in reply to evidence of judges and scientists converting to Islam:]
Well done. And just what is this supposed to prove again?
Well if you really bothered checking up on our prevoius conversations where you wanted proof that “western thinkers” are converting to islam, you would not have said this silly question above.
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well why is it that your hero richard dawkins tries to prove evolution and tries to force it down our throats? you should watch his videos and then you will see what i am talking about
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Atheism has no aims. Atheism does not wish to solve the problems of the world. Atheism is simply a non-belief in any god.
SO you agree that athiesm is not the way forward because it cant solve the worlds problems. but i say islam can and has done if you look up true islamic history. not the fox news version.
I don’t want to give Islam a chance with me, because I don’t believe in any god. To be Islamic, I would have to start believing, which is impossible for me, because it makes no sense to me. Of one thing I am pretty certain, Islam will not get rid of atheism. Islam teaches that people can only come to believe willingly, and not by oppression. Islam will not be able to make everyone come into its folds. As such, if Islam is to solve the world’s problems, it will only be able to do so if it uses force. But Islam opposes the use of force.
Agreed. Fair point. There is no compulsion in Islam. However, Islam will dominate the world, not by force but by choice. people will wake up to the reality and want a better life to what they currently have IF they knew it exsist. Tjhats why so many educated thinkers from the west are converting to islam.
As an atheist, I will never try to force you to give up your religion - but I will speak against it if I find the opportunity. As an atheist, I’d love to solve the problems of the world, but I don’t think any kind of force is the ultimate answer. The problem as I see it is that religions want the world to see things their way. Is it true that if I don’t see things your way, you think: <>As i said, force is not the answer by no other religion or system has a justice system like Islam can provide. Also your claim thta religions want people to see it their way? well i can say the same thing about atheism.
Now’s your chance. Speak out against it now. Do it openly, loudly and directly; particularly towards any oppressive tyrannical and unjust Islamists, (not those nice peaceful one’s like yourself), and see what happens. If there is a bias in the media, please point us towards some other source of information where Islamists criticise their own people.
like i said before, i oppose all acts of opression, regardless of if its commited by a muslim or anyone else. hope thats made it clear to you. as for “islamists” critising their own people who do wrong, just watch muslim news channels like http://www.presstv.ir/ where it is speaking uot on the recent oppression by the yemen and saudi forces against the houthis fighters in yemen. western media is in silence about this because it doesnt want to upset the “oil business” from their saudi partners.
goldenhawk786: 4. The reason why it’s the most fastest growning religion is because it’s the only solotuon to mankind’s problems.
Prove it.
Look up early islamic history from independant sources and then come back to me and tell me i am lying.
goldenhawk786: 5. Misinterpreting is the fault of the reader, not the author.
Not always, but in the case of the Qur’an let us assume that it is the reader who is at fault and not the author. Now prove that they, (those “other” Muslims) are the ones misinterpreting, and not you.
Because islam does not condone violence. it is a very peaceful religion, despite what you have been told.
arbiter:
If a person is really dumb, can we fairly call the above reply by goldenhawk786 plagiarism?
is there anything wrong with copying a pasting so i dont have to re-write what i have said to you monkeys. thats your problem. you dont bother to read or understand what i am trying to say. its that arrogant attitude and twisted belief of yours which is causing this to behave and think like an animal
celebrate the fact that I do not live in a country filled with people like you
well there will come a time where you will live in a country filled with people like me. it’s just a mtter of time my monkey friend
Sorry buddy, I’m the type to rather die on my feet than live on my knees. You are the one that wants immortality, I just want freedom.
well then dying on your feet will have to do then. as for the “freedom” you speak of. what freedom is it you want? freedom from anyone telling you what to believe or what to do? or the other freedome you talk about. well that will soon become even more limited as the revised version of patriot act is released upon you. then we will talk about this freedom of yours in more detail. god willing
Tilberian:
So the fact some westerners have converted to Islam proves nothing. As I thought. If you say it does, you will have to admit that the links I posted to stories about Muslims leaving Islam prove the counterpoint.
Show me where “thinkers” of islam have converted like i have done for you. I have not given you the average joe but “thinking” western people. can you do the same ?
I have, not that it is even necessary. You have to show a significant proportion of a population doing something before you can even start to identify some trend. Two educated westerners is a fluke. In a population that must number in the tens of thousands, we would be surprised if didn’t see such an anomaly.
So how many links do i need to provide to show it is not a fluke? 10? 100? 1000?
i expected a better answer from a “thinking” atheist. so far i am deeply disspointed
bigredfutbol:
Well, Frank Ribery converted to Islam. So that’s something.
Other than that, though. I don’t think goldenhawk has much ammo to work with. When is he/she going to let us know why evolution is wrong? That should be really…entertaining.
i dont see anything entertaining about it. life is not a game. however if you really want evidence to show evolution is jst a myth, then please take some time to check out the website below as this topic is not about evolution vs god. just visit the website and show me one example where the author is talking rubbish. thats all
http://www.harunyahya.com/
Well, you lied—that website is very MUCH about “evolution versus god” unless you don’t believe that Allah has anything to do with Islam. Have YOU read your link?
All I “learned” is that Muslim creationists are just as stupid and disingenuous as Christian creationists. Not that I ever doubted it.
OMG !! I am going to put this post on my mantle peice and cherish it. the webite author is a muslim so its obvious he beleives in a god called allah.
by the way you can watch your hero richard dawkins, talk about that life may have been created by aliens. the ivdeo is only about 90 seconds long. he has made a right fool of himself.
http://tr1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/18787/
You really are as stupid as you pretend to be, aren’t you?
by the way you can watch your hero richard dawkins, talk about that life may have been created by aliens. the vdeo is only about 90 seconds long. he has made a right fool of himself.
http://tr1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/18787/
GAD:
When you hate some group and you want them gone, you don’t talk nice about them, you use dehumanizing language, unless you are killing them to save them (for god), in which case you apologize to them while torturing them to death.
@ gad, your more stupid than i thought. i wonder what the stupid limit is for athiests ?
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@ gad, your more stupid than i thought. i wonder what the stupid limit is for athiests ?
by the way you can watch your hero richard dawkins, talk about that life may have been created by aliens. the vdeo is only about 90 seconds long. he has made a right fool of himself.
http://tr1.harunyahya.com/Detail/T/EDCRFV/productId/18787/
And you are one of the most ignorant and lowly people I’ve seen in a long while, prefect for islam
@ gad. tell me something, are you always this stupid or are you making a special effort today ? You make monkeys look intelligent !
[ more punch ups on all sides ]
Sometimes I actually pity the atheists. Well all i can say to you brainwashed monkeys is that we will have to wait until your rotting in your grave and then you will ewake up to reality.
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Tilberian:
Everyone, do NOT go to his website. He’s only trying to drive hits. Insist he repost the relevant data here and provide the link only for attribution.
I guess your panicking now. I’m not even started yet. You claim to be open minded and dont beleive in censorship. This shows the true nature of atheists. You guys are even to scared to watch your hero Richard Dawkins making these absurd claims.
can zen:
BTW, what is a muslim who does not believe in Allah? Your ability to mangle meaning is astonishing, but despite that I would love to see your response godlenhock786.
Bob
godlenhock786.? I would rather be called goldylocks. i guess we can replace 3 little bears with 3 little monkeys
goodgraydrab
No, not panicking. Saddened and alarmed. Obviously, you are limited in your ability for objective, reasoned and educated thought, regardless of your religious beliefs. From many of the things you’ve said on this forum pertaining to religion, government and personal references, your presentation here epitomizes Dee’s greatest fears, and for us to adhere to our highly prized concept of Reason, we must now trust and defend that your example of the Muslim faith in western culture is indeed a small minority. I appreciate that you are trying to engage with others unlike yourself, at first thinking that perhaps you are trying to broaden your experience and understanding of diversity and tolerance in a free democratic society. I’ve concluded that this is not so. In my opinion you have not represented yourself and your Muslim faith well at all and indeed you are serving to support any prejudicial stereotypes against your religion, for which, don’t get me wrong, many of us will probably struggle against to apply. Perhaps Dee’s threshhold is just lower. I don’t know your age, origin of birth or education level, but my hope is that you will seek out the most intelligent, tolerant and secular-minded mentors of your faith to emulate and learn from. Peace.
Peace, but you don’t need to give me the lecture old man. Very flowery comment and I can flip this and say the same thing about you. Peace
sheba:
Goldenhawk786,
First I’d like you to tell me a little about yourself : it helps to know whether you are a “he” or “she” . If you are a she then it should be easier to convince you that Islam is not your friend. Either way though, I want to know if you are a Muslim now or is it that you are thinking of becoming one ?
Can you describe yourself ? (Gender, age, nationality ,race, occupation, school, country, city, and anything else you can think of )
Yes I am a muslim and I am male. I live in the UK. Is that sufficient? Can you tell me a little bit about yourself please ?
Okay, you are Muslim and male. Tell me : where did you first get your information about Islam ? Did you read about it , were you seduced to join and become a Muslim , had you been listening to Muslim speakers, did you decide to visit a mosque , did you decide Islam could be for you because certain Muslim friends or acquaintances were so positive about it ? Or what was it ?
I was born a Muslim. My information regarding Islam has come from varoius sources. Lectures, Books, Videos, Internet, Friends and family.
Are you here because you want to hear what we have to say about your religion , or are you here to convince us how great it is ? If you want to convince us, you are out of luck because this is a REASON forum. That’s why it attracts so many atheists, because they have rebelled against the nonsense and fantasy that they believe religion to be.
I am here to give you the TRUTH abot Islam and try to remove any misconceptions about Islam and also try to give you a better alternative to what you already have.
But never mind that for now . You didn’t say what age you are, or what Nationality or race. Those things matter because how you see Islam , or WANT to see Islam ,could have a lot to do with your ancestry, background, influence from relatives etc.
Despite what you make think or know, I see Islam from reason, Logic and the only solution for mankind.
If you haven’t yet read a book on Islam that is OBJECTIVE you really should. I can suggest some good books. And do give yourself a chance to understand both viewpoints ! Be fair to yourself and hear why these authors reject Islam. I can promise you , you will not be sorry you did that. But you WILL be sorry if you just let yourself get carried away by promises of glory make by those who don’t know the difference. You wonder how someone, a Muslim, can be so sold on that faith and talk so confidently and fervently about it and still not know the difference ? Well this is how : chances are he was raised in a family that told him Islam and Allah were the greatest things in life, that he must believe, he must study, he must devote himself ,he must live the religious lifestyle that comes with being a good Muslim. He has all that stuff whispered in his ears when he is still in a cradle; he grows up never questioning; he just assumes that’s the way life is ! By the time he’s an adult, he has been completely pickled in the salty brine of religious dogma. No, he doesn’t know the difference—, but YOU can, and you owe it to yourself to do everything you can to gain perspective on the matter. My promise to you is this : that once you have made that effort and gained enough knowledge to compare , you will never be the same again ; you will know for sure which direction to take.
I have read many books on Islam. Some from non-muslims, athiests etc…I want to understand it from your viewpoint, thats why i am here ! These “authors” who reject Islam as you put it, are like most people because they already have a pre-concieved idea about Islam and let their prejudice blind their reasoning. As for the rest of the paragraph, the flip side to the coin would be that i could have been rasied in any religion or even be raised as an athiest progammed to hate all religion.
There are many, many reasons why Islam can not function comfortably in the modern world . If that doesn’t bother you then you do not understand the severe contrasts between Islam and other societies today. If you don’t mind my generalizing for a second , I can just say the reason Islam is such a misfit is that other societies in this world are advanced compared to Islam. “Only way forward” ? You really must be a newcomer to the world of religion. Goldenhawk, Islam is behind; way behind, mentally , physically, spiritually—every way ! Islam, Goldenhawk, is the past ! The rest of the world has left the ideas that Islam still clings to , and it has elevated itself to the better heights of humanity . Islam never did get that far—they are still wallowing in old notions, and religious restrictions. Why in the world would you want to be part of something like that ???
Thats according to your opinion sheba. I wannt to talk about hard core facts and evidence. Your above paragraph is all YOUR OPINION. I can flip the coin and say the same thing about athiesm.
I will give of myself willingly and humbly to any regular Muslim who will listen, but I cannot accept radical Islam or Islamists who already hate me and people like me because I am an “unbeliever”. That radical aspect of Islam is toxic. Please don’t let yourself get intoxicated !
Vice versa.
We need to talk some-more . I have unselfish intentions, because I know I will do you more good than harm. You don’t understand now, but I am on your side.
Vice Versa. your the first person who is talking to me nicely unlike the other baboons here and you seem to be ok. I will carry on this conversation with you if it stays that way.
Seba i have replied to your questions. Now, would you give me kind and give me a bit about your background as I have. Thanks.
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Tilberian:
I’m going to wet myself laughing. The only person on the site Fauxhawk can see eye-to-eye with is the rabid Muslim hater we have all been castigating for her bigoted views. I guess irrational haters think alike. Fascinating and hilarious.
@ Tilberian….have you wetted yourself yet? is this common? if it is, then you should get it checked out. i know you act like a monkey but come on dude, you need to control yourself until you can reach the bathroom.
eucaryote:
That’s cool! I am pleased to see us all go to hell by whatever route we choose. However, if you decide to blow yourself up, you’ll keep it to yourself, won’t you? Thanks, we all appreciate it.
i am amazed how stupid athiets can be
SkepticX:
Responsible, rational adult behavior often seems stupid to children though.
i agree. thats why i condier children to be athiests. LOL
hperk:
The only way Islam will lead to “peace and prosperity”, as I believe ‘Goldenhawk’ has said it, is if every single soul on Earth converts. This has been shouted from the caves of Afghanistan as well as bled from the pages of the Koran. Osama bin Laden himself proposed a similar course of action when he took credit for the 9/11 attacks on Al Jazeera Television.
well i dont agree with the above as islam beleives in becoming muslim by choice, not by compulsion. but even if i did, then i can apply this comment and say you would want the same if everyone became athiests.
The problem (here) with the Koran is that it doesn’t encourage peaceful conversion or respect any differences. It calls for those who do not believe to be cast out, ignored, or flat-out-not-out-of-context-plain-as-the-day eliminated; gruesomely. Prove me wrong.
TOTALY WRONG. Islam is the most preaceful faith and encourages co-existance. This shows your overall ignorance of the islamic faith and specially about the QURAN. If that was the case then there would have been no christian left in any arab and muslim lands. This clearly shows prejudince and that you are narrow minded person, have been injected with anti-islam poison.
Islam is going to end violently. Such is its nature. It will either win, or it will lose. Either way, its finale will require bloodshed. It is my sincere hope that it can either evolve, or do as little damage as possible before the candle is blown out.
Oh, i beleive it will win and eventually dominate the earth as, i beleive, people will flock to it when they finally open the eyes from the propganda and embrace it willfully.
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hperk:
Alright, Goldenhawk. Here’s your list. These are either from references made in Sam Harris’ The End of Faith, or from my own copy of the Koran, called the Koran Interpreted. Feel free to verify their validity by looking them up yourself. They are not out of context. I find their meanings to be clear.
“God’s curse be upon the infadels!” (2:89)
”(The unbelievers) shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter.” (2:114)
”(We) shall let them live awhile, and then drag them to the scourge of the Fire. Evil shall be their fate.” (2:126)
“Do not say that those slain in the cause of God are dead. They are alive, but you are not aware of them.” (2:154)
“The unbelievers are like beasts which, call out to them as one may, can hear nothing but a shout and cry. Deaf, dumb, and blind, they understand nothing.” (2:172)
“Slay them whenever you find them.” (2:190)
“Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God’s religion reigns supreme.” (2:191)
“The only true faith in God’s sight is Islam.” (3:19)
“Let the believers not make friends with infidels in preference to the faithful.” (3:28)
“Say to the unbelievers: ‘You shall be overthrown and driven into Hell—an evil resting place!’” (3:12)
“We will put terror into the hearts of the unbelievers.” (3:150)
“We give them respite only so that they may commit more grievous sins.” (3:178)
“Think not the unbelievers able to frustrate God in the earth; their refuge is the Fire—an evil homecoming.” (K. Int., The Light 58)
“Fear the fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for unbelievers.” (K. Int., The Cow 15)
“We shall advance upon what work they have done, and make it a scattered dust.” (K. Int., Salvation 26)
I see several ideals that the Koran advocates in the above quotes; none of which include co-existence or harmony of any sort. Please note that these quotes were taken with careful consideration for context. These quotes indicate that the Koran:
1.) justifies and idolizes Islamic religious attacks.
2.) calls for violence against unbelievers (and Christians, pagans, and “crusaders”, as seen in the full text).
3.) makes the infliction of terror a goal for its followers.
4.) advocates the “casting out” of Christians and others with conflicting beliefs.
5.) demands that all beliefs other than Islam be eradicated.
Those are only a few of the reasons why Islam is a hostile religion. I didn’t even mention the restrictions on the rights of women, or the hoards of other lunacies proposed by the Koran. Most of the world has rejected Islam, likely because of its abrasive nature. About 33% of the planet is Christian. 22% are Muslim, followed by Hindus at 15% and “unbelievers” at 14%. The remainder is a mix of Buddhism and tribal beliefs. It is my understanding that, over the past ten years, atheism has grown by 7%, whereas Islam has been falling in rate. It rose from 2% to 6% shortly after 9/11, but studies show that percentages are declining. Atheism, however, continues to grow. In Australia, the numbers are astronomical; the United States is expected to follow. Europe’s religious connections have been dwindling for the past fifty years. It is atheism that is “on the rise”. Bad News Bears for you, buddy.
I am sorry to say this again, as this is getting embarrsaing for you, but you really are showing your ignorance and prejudice of islam.
The above quotes you have mentioned have been taken out of context. You have quoted only parts of the verse and not the whole verse. this may be due to your laziness to verify from the quran and just simply copying and pasting like a idiot from other anti-islam websites. Even some of the quotes are not correct! this clearly shows you could not be bothered to research yourself via an independant mind. as for yur last paragarph, i really dont know where to start on this, so the less said on this the better. i am totally shocked and saddened as i genuinly thought you would give me some logical reasoning, or “evidence” to support your case. sorry but you have failed in all areas, but i am not suprised. the other atheist give me better run for my money than you. next time you pose a question, research about it first. i bid you farewell. peace
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goodgraydrab:
This childish banter is getting tiring and embarrassing. What are you ... 16, 17 years old tops? Jr in high school? Our 15 yo Atheist in just his few short posts has shown way more breadth and depth in his thought processes than you.
@ goodgraydrab….i wont reply to you becuase your just a brianwashed monkey. i guess you need more time to “evolve” before i can interllectualy debate with you.
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Aaron, Administrator:
Hmmmm…..
Well, is this more in context?
2:190 Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors.
2:191 And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there, but if they attack you (there) then slay them. Such is the reward of disbeliever.
What a load of gibberish garbage. First all seems okay:
Only fight back against those who instigate.
Okay.
But then:
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them.
Also, banish them from where they banished you.
Whatever you do, don’t fight with them at the holy place, not unless they start it; then it’s okay to kill them. . . because disbelievers deserve to die.
Mixed messages anybody?
Don’t kill them, but kill them wherever you find them, but no in the holy place, unless they start it, then kill them because they deserve it anyway.
Is Allah confused, or just developmentally challenged?
Have you EVER, imean EVER bothered to ask ANY muslim scholar as to what the verse is talking about?
i honestly thought you athiest would at least research thoroughly before making these out of context statements. scooby doo has more sense than you guys. at least he investigates.
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why cant you guys ask me proper questions? why do you keep on running away from the interlectuall battlefield ?
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hperk:
That’s likely because we aren’t engaging in intellectual jihad; we just call bad ideas when we see them.
Besides—I think I’ve asked you quite a prime question: Why SHOULD anyone believe in Islam? It’s a topic on the Islam forum. I look forward to reading your answer.
WHY? have you not been reading me posts in this forum. i hgave so many reasons on to why islam is the only acceptable way of life. you shold read my post and any you disagree with, then feel free to ask. as for your bad ideas claim, show me one bad idea islam is preaching out.
eudemonia:
I have asked many appropriate questions.
Islam and science for example.
What propulsion system was used to propel Mohammed and his white horse into heaven?
Horses normally as far as we know, cannot fly. How did Mohammeds? Lets hear the theory and the engineering behind the deed.
Surely the Koran can and does explain the aerodynamics of a winged horse, no?
listen you silly billy, no where does allah mention in the quran about the holy prophet muhammad (S) going up in the sky flying on a winged horse. where did you get this stuff from? this shows you havnt read the quran and dont know anything about it. your just a parrot repeating like the rest of these idiots.
Aaron, Administrator:
The Bukhari Hadiths: In the year 621 at the age of 51, Muhammad flew on the magical Winged-Horse of Fire which he called Burak, which means “Thunder-Lightning”
hperk:
It doesn’t matter if he flew on a horse or a purple dragon; humans cannot fly. If, as it seems you suggest, the words of Allah allowed him this truly divine power, it still leaves us with blind faith as this argument’s only backing.
well they can fly by the help of god. you cant comprehend this fact due to the lack of your faith. but if richard dawkins says something, you will beleive it straight away. you follow science blindly, so dont you get me a lecture about blind faith.
As for taking the passage “metaphorically”:
This is far too often the lazy excuse that believers give to justify absolutely ridiculous ideas. Who decides what is to be taken literally and what is not? The answer is no one. There is not a soul alive that I think has spoken with God. If God did include fairy tales with moral lessons, I think it was a bad idea to shelve them alongside militant jihad and stoning adulterers. If we aren’t to believe that Mohammad flew away on a horse, we should not also believe that Jesus arose from the dead. One can’t cherry-pick from the “Word of God”, if one truly believes it to be.
nothing to do with being lazy. allah himself gives examples to make things clear. people best understand things with examples. if i was in a science class and the teacher just gave me a book to read, what are the chances of me being to understand? i think low.. but if the teacher gave me the book, and provided examples with it, i beleive the chances of understanding are high. some statements are clear in the quran, but some require examples and metphors. but even with all this explaining, people like you still dont understand.
Aaron:
What a load of gibberish garbage. First all seems okay:
Only fight back against those who instigate.
Okay.
But then:
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them.
Also, banish them from where they banished you.
Whatever you do, don’t fight with them at the holy place, not unless they start it; then it’s okay to kill them. . . because disbelievers deserve to die.
Mixed messages anybody?
why dont you take some time out and read the versus before and after those statements. if you still cant understand, why not read the commentry? if you still cant understand, then god help you.
Don’t kill them, but kill them wherever you find them, but no in the holy place, unless they start it, then kill them because they deserve it anyway.
Is Allah confused, or just developmentally challenged?
it is your primitive brain thats confused because maby you dont WANT to understand due to your prejudice. thats blinding you to the truth.
Have you EVER, imean EVER bothered to ask ANY muslim scholar as to what the verse is talking about?
Well, now, I think I just asked you, didn’t I? But then again, you’re no scholar. So, you simply cannot answer a question, I suppose. This is disappointing considering your very first post:
well if you read my last statement, i made it clear i wll answer IF i can ! you dont even read my posts carefully, let alone the quran !
You call that trying [ to answer questions]?
well why dont you ask proper question instead of going at a whim. i think you want to just pick and find faults, simply because of the “God” element involved and not due to facts or you really want to understand.
I’m sure that “proper questions” are the one’s you know how to answer. Claiming “improper question!” is an easy way to avoid responding “I don’t know,” instead drawing a typically condescending “god help you.”
like i said before, if i dont know then i will tell you. i am sure you dont know everything about athiesm. at least i am being honest. are you ?
eudemonia:
‘In the year 621, at the age of 51 years old, Mohammed flew on the magical Winged-Horse of Fire which he called Burak, which literally means White Horse but seen as “Thunder-Lightning”. The full version of this most memorable moment has been preserved in “The Bokhari” (Vol.15, p.3615) one of the Holy Islamic Scriptures’
So is this a lie? A vision? Is the vision a lie, or did Mohammed actually lie about having it?
this is a made up story. not true at all. that’s not in the quran. i beleive whats in the quran. cant you quote me from the quran? instead of bukhari which was written about 100 years after the holy prophet (S) martyrdom.
Rigamortus:
we predicted your move several turns ago, so… You decide
who is this we? you americans are to dumb to make any predictions, and even if you had half a brain cell to make a prediction, it will be way of the mark. just like your predictions on the war on terror (i take it as war on islam) have failed misrebly and will continue to do so in the future god willing.
If I took the quran or the bible, removed a bunch of it completely, kept some parts as meaningless poetry and ramblings to read on quiet nights, and rearranged the individual words of whatever is left to outline what I did on my last summer vacation, I suppose I’d believe in my interpretation too.
the quran are the words of allah, there is no doubt. there is no difference to the quran which was 1400 years old and the one we have today. it contains guidance for mankind. but guidance can be given to those who are only sincere and seeking, not to the stupid and ignorant.
W. Collins:
Show me some evidence of this great wisdom in the Quran please. Surely a book authored by a supernatural being must have some very incredible insights capable of turning atheists into believers. I know about flying ponies and stuff like that, but I want to see something realistic and mind blowing.
flying ponies in the quran ??!!! this is what i mean oh readers ! let me tell you a good story mr W. collins.
jesus (AS) is reported to have said the following statement…..
“i have been given many powers from god. i could cure the blind, cure the leapors, even raise the dead. but there is one thing i could not do.” so the people asked jesus what was that thing he could not do. you know what he said W.Collins? Jesus replied” I could not cure the stupid”. i think this story (if true) would fit you like a glove !
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sheba:
This thread started out with you wanting to talk about Islam being “the fastest growing religion in the world ” , so I’d like to comment on that :
You are right - it IS the fastest growing in the world today, and it can only get faster . So why is it that way ? It’s easy- first Muslims reproduce so fast, and when a child is born into a Muslim family he automatically becomes a believer himself—so presto—you’ve got an assembly-line operation right there .
i agree that birth control is a contributing factor. the reason why muslim stay as muslim, is because there is no better alternative. i could understand if one was scared into rejecting islam in the middle east, but what about muslim born and bred in the west? surely they can leave if they wanted to. but if you ask them, they will most likely to inform you that its because islam has the answers to all of the problems mankind is facing.
So why do Muslims they have such big families and give birth so often ? I hope you aren’t shocked by this but Muslim women are walking talking incubators ; they have one baby after the other whether they like it or not. That’s because the good Muslim wife does NOT say “NO” to her husband when he wants to cozy-up between the sheets.
your talking rubbish here. i know so many muslim families that have only a couple of children. also the actual reason is that most muslim (like the catholics) are against birth control. and what about the western families? you telling me that some they dont have lots of kids? whats their reason for having lots of kids? the women cant say no to her husband ? dont say that they are isolated cases because they are not. you put up a crazy argument on this one.
Please don’t argue this, it even says that in the Koran. I’m not sure exactly how it went , but if I remember right it says that if a wife gets difficult that way “the angels will curse her ” He probably curses her too,- either that or he kicks her. Did you know, by the way, that in the cities and towns of the USA where they have “battered women’s “sanctuaries, that there are more Muslim women who come there than any other women ?
complete utter rubbish !!! nowhere does it say that in the quran. you really should for once in your lifetime actually take time and bother reading the holy quran instead of assuming which shows your ignorance and bias. show me one verse in the quran which supports you above case. for YOUR information and to all these brainwashed anti-islami idiots here in this forum, quran actually gave more freedom to the women before your “west” ever did. i can give you lots of examples but then this post be become to long. if you are honest and impartial then i suggest anyone reading this about women’s rights in islam to goto the following link.
http://www.islamfortoday.com/womensrightsbadawi.htm
try to study it carefully with an OPEN MIND as it’s not to long.
Then lets not forget the fact that men may marry more than one wife in Islam. They can also marry at a pathetic young age—whether they want to or not. All this means more and more babies . You may think this all sounds well and good, but you are not a woman. As a matter of fact, all this goodness and glory you see in Islam is partly due to the fact that you are a man. Ever carried a baby in your belly for 9 months and then taken care of it for years afterward ? Do that once and you will see the whole “fun” thing in a whole new way .I have a feeling Muslim men do not share the diaper-changing chore either .
men can marry more than one wife is islam, but there are strict conditions to it if you bother to read them. as i have mentioned so mant times on this forum that islam has the solution to ALL problems. lets talk about this problem you have mentioned. tell me, how would you solve the female problem in the USA? there are thousands (some reports say over a million) more women in the US than men. so let’s suppose if every man got married in the US to only 1 wife, there would still be lots of single women out there who cant get husbands. also i have not taken the male gay factor into account as you have a HUGE gay problem in the US. so what would be your solution to this problem? islam gives this allowance as some women dont mind sharing a husband and so men dont mind sharing a wife.
As I said the Muslim man thinks it is his “right ” not a privilege to diddle his wife , according to everything I’ve read and heard. In case you think you can prove otherwise by using yourself as a model , that doesn’t work because you probably are not experienced enough with women to know the difference. Or maybe your “advisers” in the mosques haven’t yet hit upon this subject .
what have you been hearing and reading woman ?!!! give me the name of just ONE book you have fully read from an islamic point of view. i dont want many, just one. i dont think you can. because you (and like most here) are just basing your “facts” on hearsay like you have admitted above. go and study carefully about islam and then come back and give me any of your so called facts.
you say i am not expenciened with women? i am married and have children and so are many of my friends to treat our women like princess. unlike you men, to beat up, treat women like sex objects, use and abuse them, are unfaithfull, fantaise about other women. dont even start here sheba, as i can say things which you may not want to hear about western men. also when quoting from the quran, make sure the verse is actually there unlike the one you have quoted which is not in the quran. and you consider yourself to be fair and impartial ?!!
Yes, Muslims, compared to non-Muslims, are reproducing FAST , and that is NOT good news because their objective is consensual : they believe that Islam should rule the world and that it is their duty as followers of the Koran and Allah , to promote that dream; to attain that position even if it means ruthless disregard for others, and killing those will not defer to Allah.
again, sheba, this shows your honesty, you have selected a few extremists who tarnish islam and you paint us all with the same brush. if Stalin or MAO committed crimes in the name of atheism, can i say all atheist’s share the same view ? come on think !
If the non-Muslim population were not going down ; shrinking, all this would not bother me so, but most of Europe and the West are having smaller and smaller families. I’ll be perfectly honest with you—this strikes horror in my heart—-especially for the small countries of Europe; they can hold only so many newcomers and then somebody has to suffer. Especially when those newcomers are freeloaders with a lifestyle that clashes miserably with the Democratic system. How much can they take ?
who or more importantly, what has stopped the Europe from not growing? i will tell you some of the reasons and i can elaborate on each specifically if you want me to.. its the idea of not getting pregnant early on as it will ruin a womens career (like an actress), as the “equal opportunity” sets in motion in the minds of women. so they want to get married at a later stage and then sometimes issues arise due to late pregnancy and harder to conceive. also the birth control issue, the gay issue, society breakdown, less people are getting married as dont think its feasible anymore. you want some more, i can give you lots more examples but i dont want to bore the reader.
And you wanted to tell everyone here that the reason Islam was growing so fast was BECAUSE THERE WERE SO MANY CONVERTS ...!! I will admit , though, converts are a problem too.
well for once i can only partially agree with you. why are the converts a problem for you? is it because it weakens your case against islam ? or is there something you not telling me here sheba ?
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ChaosRules:
I found your diatribe (look it up) very amusing on the issue of the western world having “too many” women. What, we need to maintain a 50/50 ratio for some reason? The gay problem, described by you, the west is experiencing was also enlightening.
i didnt say its wrong to have to many women, i was just stating facts that in general women are more than men, stop trying to twist my words boy !
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sheba:
Okay Mr. Hawk :
First, let me say this : that I realize that just because a person calls himself/herself a Muslim does not automatically mean that he follows Islam the same as those who are unflappably committed to the Koran . Just as with other religions people adhere to the teachings of their holy doctrines to meet their own tastes or lifestyle. When it comes to Islam, a devout Muslim is supposed to live according to the rules of the Koran and take them very seriously . BUT there are undoubtedly many who call themselves Muslims who live according to their own interpretation of the book. Those kind of Muslims had best live in a country where expectations are not very high, else that person will be judged more severely.
i mostly agree with you on this on.
Where you live I still don’t know, and how much of an “orthodox” ( fundamental; true ) Islamic you are, but how you react to what I say probably has a lot to do with it . Usually, when I talk about Muslim believers, I am talking about those who adhere strictly to the rules and teachings of the Koran .. AND those who have a hostile or competitive attitude towards the non- Muslim world.
i live in the UK. i am a VERY devout muslim. in-fact you probably wont get to debate with a more “orthodox” muslim like me. i strictly follow the rules and teachings to the koran as best as i can. of course i am a human and can make mistakes but i do try to live and die by the teachings of islam. i have no hostility to the western people in general. but i hate the US foreign policy which has terrorised and kill innocent men, women and children and still continue to do so. when i see on the news every day that the US has done this and that to the muslims, what would you expect me to react? what would you do if some countries begins a war on athiests and starts to kill them indiscriminately?
Perhaps in your own private life, you would not dream of hitting your wife, or consider her wrong according to the teachings of Islam if she didn’t want to sleep with you. But there are enough Muslim men who expect a wife to be “obeb ” and respond to him positively or be punished.
well women are there to please the husbands and vice versa. whats wrong with that? if a woman does not wish to sleep with a husband and she has a valid reason, then i can accept that. if she refuses sleep with him just to piss him off, then thats wrong. marriage life is all about caring for one another. not beating each other up. if you cant live with a wife because of continues argument, then islam allows divorce. unlike the westen women, who sell their virginity on the internet for college fees. or how you can sell yourself on the internet for fun ! is this the freedom you crave for? have some self respect ! how low can you get? dont beleive me? check out the link below.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/2971511/Italian-model-plans-to-sell-virginity-for-1m-euros.html
You cannot rightfully say that Islam considers women to be equal to men or that she is free to control her own life , because it just isn’t true. Islam is famous the world over for treating women like second class citizens. That is, according to modern standards . The trouble is, Islam does NOT live by modern standards. You treat women unfairly and hide behind some religious excuse. There just isn’t any argument about that.
treats women like second class citizens? where do you get your sources from? islam teaches to treat women kindly and give them respect. those who treat women like dirt are not then following the true teachings of islam. as i have said many times before, stop judging islam by the people. judge islam by the teachings and you will see the difference.
But I am getting off subject now. I still stand by what I say about Islam and population growth. Women seem to be pregnant every other year- so did Catholic women before they began using birth control. Strict followers of the Koran DO think ( at least the husband does ) that a Muslim wife should not reject her husband’s romantic overtures toward her.
why dont you ask the western women who have converted to islam and see if what you claim is true. for your information, non-muslim women are getting pregnant more or less every year. look at china, india, italy etc…are you telling me they are muslims? anyway, whats wrong with having lots of children if the couple are ok with it? why is that negative ? who, or more importantly what makes you say this is wrong?
Muhammad emphasized that women were possessions of their husbands. THE KORAN :
” IF A HUSBAND CALLS HIS WIFE TO HIS BED ( ie to have sexual relations ) , AND SHE REFUSES HIM AND CAUSES HIM TO SLEEP IN ANGER, THE ANGELS WILL CURSE HER TILL MORNING ” and “
“THE HUSBAND IS ONLY OBLIGED TO SUPPORT HIS WIFE WHEN SHE GIVES HERSELF TO HIM , AND SHE ALLOWS HIM FULL ENJOYMENT OF HER PERSON, AND DOES NOT REFUSE HIM AT ANY TIME OF THE NIGHT OR DAY “
RUBBISH ! THIS IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF YOU BEING SO IGNORANT !!! SHOW ME WHAT YOU HAVE QUOTED ABOVE IS IN THE QURAN? THIS IS A BLATANT LIE. I CHALLENGE YOU TO PROVE IT. you cant and you wont because this is just another attempt of not being bothered in the very least to verify what people tell you. the most disturbing aspect in this; if you cant check up your sources independently and correctly, then what would be the chances if you did find some verse and took the wrong meaning from it? sorry sheba, but this is very disappointing. i have challenged you before when you quoted something and said it was from the quran and you did not get back to me on that. i beleive most of your information is hearsay or from anti-islamic websites. from your other thread, you also dont know much about the islamic history either. you have not quoted me a single verse from the quran, your base you judgement and get your information on hearsay as you have admitted before in the thread, then you have the sheer nerve to say you are fair and objective ?
I’d like to continue but it’s late; very late, so I will “talk” to you again.
well next time you talk to me sheba, please look up the information because you making yourself look so ignorant. sorry to have a go at you sheba. but its so frustrating to talk to somebody when they dont verify the information, go of a whim, and ASSUME this is what islam is. peace.
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ChaosRules:
OK, so maybe you didn’t say that it was “wrong” to have too many women, but you clearly stated that it is a problem. I don’t think that I was twisting your words at all. If the problem is not that there are too many women, then what is the “female problem” that you allude to in your post? Combined, of course, with the “gay problem”. Again, I don’t believe that there is a requirement for any solution at all.
@ChaosRules…read my post again. look into the context. when i used the word “problem”, i meant that it would be a problem for women to find a husband if every guy got married to one women in the USA. also lots of men are gay which makes it increasingly difficult for a women in the US looking to get married to a man. again, as for being gay, this sick disease of the mind to common in the west due to your curropt beliefs and lifestyle. buts thats a different issue.
Rigamortus:
Wow, could I get you some more bigot sauce for your intolerance platter?
Is this view of homosexuality learned from one of the teachings of love, peace, and harmony in the quran? Or did you come up with it all on your own?
Edit: So you don’t avoid the question by going off on a tangent about how I’m picking on muslims or islam… I’m not. I’m aware that, unfortunately, many people share your same view. But I’m only curious about your reasons right now because, well, you’re who posted the quote above, and you can best speak only about your own reason(s).
very clever at trying to divert the topic. however, i will answer you. being gay is not natural. a plug is made for a socket and vice versa. i mean being gay would be just killing of your species right? you should be anti gay. if everyone was gay, then maybe life as we know it would cease to exist ! so you athiests should be the last people to be pro gay, unless you have become one yourself.
I’ll admit, the gay threat to society, and the human species in general seems insurmountable at present. Hopefully we’ll be able to endure the violence they promote and the rules they impose on the rest of us. It’s hard to resist their recruitment propaganda, but together, god willing, if we hold fast to our plug and socket metaphor, we’ll see our way out of this oppression. Someday.
Sorry for derailing your thread, I just had to ask.
@Rigamortus….you have been a well behaved chimp. in-fact, carry on and you may get invited to audition for the new gorillas in the mist movie. nevertheless, here is your banana for today…..catch !
anyway i am tired of talking to you little monkeys. i want to challenge king kong himself, Sam Harris ! (or richard dawkins). so bring him on, or is he to busy doing another remake of king kong ?
Aaron, Administrator:
The only reason more gay Muslims don’t come out of the closet is because they fear death. Somewhat in the U.S., and predominantly in Scandinavian countries, gay people marry. Healthy societies have integrated gay people seamlessly, with no ill effects.
what a silly person you really are. you just dont know anything do you? you say muslims dont declare thmeselves being gay because of death? well what about muslims living in europe or the USA ? are they afraid of death ? why dont they come out? the reason why they are not gay is because they are not influenced by the curropt and sick society where they live.
100 years ago, being gay in the west was considered bad, as as you guys got more worse, it has become the norm. i bet one day Peadaphiles will be accpeted. you dont know where to stop. your on the path to destruction morally. so go and do some homework first before talking to me this issue.
Do you really believe that this, followed by yet another admonition to “go do your homework,” is really convincing anybody that you know anything? Please stop pretending to know things about which you haven’t a clue.
@Aaron…ok “mr know it all”. tell me, you say sex with children (or under-age sex) is wrong. at what age should it be allowed. i will wait for your answer before i reply.
Deflection.
@aaron…deflection? is that all you can say ? i want you to give me an simple answer to my simple question. how hard can it be? unles you know where i am going with it….
goodgraydrab and W.collins..dont bother replying or asking questions as you are both on ignore due to your blasphemous remarks regarding the holy prophet (S).
chrisssteeven :
Hi,
High birth rates (contraception is forbidden and men can have four wives) and also Islam is spreading through impoverished third world nations who can’t control themselves sexually and do not know anything about birth control.
Islam is also losing members faster than any other religion. 75% of Western converts revert back to their original beliefs within three years of accepting Islam.
can you prove to me ANY of your points above? if not then can you keep that ignorant mouth shut until you back it up with evidence.
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i meant to say, besides the birth rate factor, which i agreed in my other posts. That is not is dispute. i was refering to the statements where:
1, muslims who cant control themselves sexually
2. Islam losing members faster than any other religion
3. 75% of western converts reverting back to their original beleifs withing 3 years
PROVE TO ME THOSE FACTS MENTIONED ABOVE
GAD:
Lets just cut the shit and answer the question directly.
Q:Why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world?
A: Because fucking morons are the fastest growing group.
i leave this comment to the viewers who think its only muslims who reply like this person has.
Leaps:
No, Goldenchild. If it had been your reply, it surely would have mentioned bananas.
@Leaps….well that would depend if i was retaliating to an insult. thats whats been going on for the last few weeks. my faith has been insulted so have i. you expect me to remain silent at the torrent of abuse which has been hurled at me ? i am perfectly within my right to give an appropriate response should the occasion arise.
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how many times do i have to tell you ? can’t you get it through your thick monkey skulls ? i told you that i dont mind you criticising my me or my faith, but insulting is a different thing altogether, you really should know the difference between criticism and insult. i suggest a dictionary may help.
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this is an article given to me by my friend and i wanted to share this with you lot. i was schocked when i read this. this shows what lengths and to what extent these desperate evolutionists can do do deceive people:
"In 1912, a well-known doctor and amateur paleoanthropologist named Charles Dawson came out with the assertion that he had found a jawbone and a cranial fragment in a pit in Piltdown, England. Even though the jawbone was more ape-like, the teeth and the skull were like a man’s. These specimens were labelled the “Piltdown man.” Alleged to be 500,000 years old, they were displayed as an absolute proof of human evolution in several museums. For more than 40 years, many scientific articles were written on “Piltdown man,” many interpretations and drawings were made, and the fossil was presented as important evidence for human evolution. No fewer than 500 doctoral theses were written on the subject.232 While visiting the British Museum in 1921, leading American paleontologist Henry Fairfield Osborn said “We have to be reminded over and over again that Nature is full of paradoxes” and proclaimed Piltdown “a discovery of transcendant importance to the prehistory of man.“233
In 1949, Kenneth Oakley, from the British Museum’s Paleontology Department, attempted to use “fluorine testing,” a new test used for determining the date of fossils. A trial was made on the fossil of Piltdown man. The result was astonishing. During the test, it was realized that the jawbone of Piltdown man did not contain any fluorine. This indicated that it had remained buried no more than a few years. The skull, which contained only a small amount of fluorine, showed that it was only a few thousand years old.
It was determined that the teeth in the jawbone, belonging to an orangutan, had been worn down artificially and that the “primitive” tools discovered with the fossils were simple imitations that had been sharpened with steel implements. In the detailed analysis completed by Joseph Weiner, this forgery was revealed to the public in 1953. The skull belonged to a 500-year-old man, and the jaw bone belonged to a recently deceased ape! The teeth had been specially arranged in a particular way and added to the jaw, and the molar surfaces were filed in order to resemble those of a man. Then all these pieces were stained with potassium dichromate to give them an old appearance. These stains began to disappear when dipped in acid.
Sir Wilfred Le Gros Clark, who was in the team that uncovered the forgery, could not hide his astonishment at this situation, and said: “The evidences of artificial abrasion immediately sprang to the eye. Indeed so obvious did they seem it may well be asked-how was it that they had escaped notice before?“234 In the wake of all this, “Piltdown man” was hurriedly removed from the British Museum where it had been displayed for more than 40 years"
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Dennis Campbell:
GH,
Excellent example. Thanks for posting it. It demonstrates that science seek to correct itself using skepticism and objective verification of claims. Of course there are people who misrepresent, who lie and who seek to claim something in order to advance their own interests, in science as well as religion. The above cited example is something that can be, and was, shown to be false. If religious claims could be so easily verified, we’d have fewer disagreements.
Dennis
Excellent example. Thanks for posting it. It demonstrates that science seek to correct itself using skepticism and objective verification of claims. Of course there are people who misrepresent, who lie and who seek to claim something in order to advance their own interests, in science as well as religion. The above cited example is something that can be, and was, shown to be false. If religious claims could be so easily verified, we’d have fewer disagreements.
Dennis
@dennis…of course religion can be easily verified. who says it can’t. islam is a very open religion and its laws and practices are open for discussions. just give me ONE example where you have evidence of an islamic issue which cannot be discussed. i look forward to your reply.
Skipshot:
Ladies and gentlemen, regarding our new member representing Islam we should let Sheba handle the topic. She claims to have all the answers in why Islam is evil. It’s strange she hasn’t chimed in on this thread.
Dennis Campbell:
Have been hoping Sheba would join this thread. If so, maybe we could get movie rights?
Otherwise, GH continues to be the most “convincing” advocate of Islam we’ve had here that I’ve seen.
Dennis
its clear you cant refute any of my arguments on islam, therefore i think we should talk about evolution theory or atheist morals. you may have a slight chance with those topics.
goldenhawk786 wins after W. Collins and Dennis Campbell throw in the towel in their post 261 on page 18, dated 14 March 2010 08:02 AM.
Reason given: Atheist opponents fled the battlefield.
Well done.
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